12 replies to this topic

[Mintox]

Hi,

 

Had a few odd deaths with similar symptoms over the last 1-2 months I would like a few opinions on.

 

Tank History

 

Velvet ~7 months ago

Whitespot ~2-3 months ago (never introducing a new fish again without quarantine)

 

Tank is stocked predominantly with peacocks and haps.

 

GH: 180

KH: 120

PH: 8.2

NO2: 0

NO3: 80

NH3: No test

 

5x2x2 2xEheim 2080's

40 fish

50% weekly water changes, filters are in good order. 

 

Currently ill

 

Red Peacock

Lake Victorian Cichlid, name escapes me

 

Symptoms

 

A fish will eat well the night before. The next day I notice the fish is a bit lethargic and does not attack food with its usual vigour. The fish will occasionally attempt to eat but will spit the food out. The fish physically looks well to begin with, for instance, the Red Peacock was showing stunning colouration for its size before this happened. The fish will show signs of laboured breathing and return to normal breathing soon after. It looks as if the fish is trying to clear something out of its mouth or gills. As the days go by, the fish gets more and more lethargic and the breathing is always laboured until it dies. The fish in this state tend to keep to themselves and will often keep to the quiet areas of the tank or caves. On the odd occasion, I can see the fish trying to scratch the side of its gills.

 

If I was overfeeding my fish, I assume the Ammonia spike could be taken care of with a water change, however, the fish never get better with water changes. Water changes are completed with Prime. 

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Added picture of unknown Victorian.

 

https://goo.gl/photo...Ju5jiQeEccu4r96

Edited by Mintox, 18 May 2017 - 12:22 AM.

[bigjohnnofish]

water parameters seem acceptable for cichlids... although nitrates at 80ppm are getting on the high side... 40-50ppm would be better... or even 10-20pm would be fantastic...  i dont think your high nitrates are the problem... they maybe contributing to the weakening of the fishes own immune system....

suspicious unknown deaths i usually contribute to parasitic infection... worms being my first guess...

catastrophic deaths happening all at once are contributed more to a water related problem.... deaths spread out over time with reasonable water quality and parameters through out indicate something else... 

fish not breathing properly indicate a problem with their gills... possible ammonia burn or parasitic infection like gill flukes... 

 

i would do a couple extra water changes and get nitrates down for starters... and look at worming and some sort of anti parasite treatment.... 

 

its a bit like trying to diagnose a car that wont start... start with the easiest and cheapest things first... if they dont work move onto the next stage...

[malawiman85]

Reading the OP, I came up with worms and flukes too as the main suspects.

[Delapool]

Just one other is the readings sound like they are from API test strips (no ammonia). Perhaps my tests were old but I found a few batches under-read nitrates and nitrites. Swapped across to the API freshwater test kit where readings seem to make more sense (kind of ).


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[Ageofaquariums]

Flukes are certainly under reported in cichlid tanks as they seem to survive quite well with heavy infestations compared to other fish. A scrape and cheap phone microscope can usually confirm either way with no fuss. For short term relief, a salt dip can be used....  but likely cause of death is going to be gill damage.

[Stormfyre]

The Nitrate is way too high. Its a 5ft tank with 40 decent fish in it. I noticed you 50% change so i wouldve thought less Nitrates.

 

In light of a recent problem of my own.. do you check your tap water parameters before putting it in? Maybe high nitrates in your tap occasionally?

 

Grab that decent Ammonia test kit, worth the $20. Why not take a decent sample of water down to the LFS (like I took mine to Aquotix recently) and they can look more closely for you. Take a video of your fish and take to show them.

[Mintox]

Thanks everyone for your great suggestions.

 

Will be purchasing a product with Praziquantel first and perhaps Trichlorfon if the Prazi isn't available.

 

I do indeed have the API test strips. Will purchase a proper NH3, NO2 and NO3 test kit as I am deliberately overstocking this tank to keep aggression down. Looking to buy another 10 or so fish once things settle down too.

 

I have checked the tap water and there was no Nitrate to be seen, will check again during the soon to be water change just to be sure.

 

Last night I chucked in some Alternafix and noticed the Victorian at least came out of hiding this morning.

 

The media in one of my Eheims is roughly 6-7 years old. Eheim state this needs to be change every now and then. I always assumed this was Eheim trying to make more money, do they have any reasoning for this?

 

Thanks again.

[malawiman85]

Tri is way cheaper than prazi and in my experience does the job on flukes just as well.

[bigjohnnofish]

. Maybe high nitrates in your tap occasionally?

 

 

 

dont know of anyone ever having a nitrate reading in their tap!!!! lol.... tap water a different story... but same result - never seen/heard of nitrates in any perth scheme water.... shallow bores can sometimes have ammonia and nitrates present depending where you live..... 

Edited by bigjohnnofish, 19 May 2017 - 02:32 AM.

[Mintox]

Bit of an update.

 

Unfortunately both the Victorian and Red Peacock died, was expecting this.

 

I have got my Nitrates down to ~30. Will be doing another large water change two days after my second dose of Prazi which will lower it a bit more. I believe I may have been over feeding my fish...

 

Something else has popped up. I believe I have Hydra in my tank. They're all over my what was spotless glass! Apparently the Prazi should be getting rid of this? Research suggest something like "Internal Parasite Clear" is good at removing Hydra. Any recommendations? I recently replaced the crappy water intake on my older 2080. Perhaps the return of the proper flow rate has expelled all the Hydra previously living in there. 

[bigjohnnofish]

while treating any tank with chemical treatments keep an eye on ammonia levels.... might spike if you have killed off beneficial bacteria...

 

levamisole is my choice of wormer.... it gets cammallanus worms which a lot of other wormers on the market dont kill... 

 

cause im lazy i looked for an article on killing hydra.... copy pasted below

 

Once Hydra are introduced to an aquarium, they are difficult to irradiate, but not impossible. If you are fortunate to have a very small infestation, you may be able to physically remove the Hydra.

 

Artificial plants and rocks can be removed from the tank and soaked in a 10% bleach solution for 10 to 15 minutes, then scrubbed and rinsed with plain water and allowed to air dry.

A non-intrusive way to eliminate Hydra is to add fish that eat them. Three Spot (Blue) Gouramis are particularly voracious consumers of Hydra.

Paradise fish and Mollies are also very fond of Hydra. Pond Snails will also gobble up Hydra.

If adding fish or snails isn't an option for you, heat can be used. However, you will have to remove your fish or they will be cooked. Once the fish have been relocated, turn the temperature of the water up to at least 104F (40C) for about two hours. Turn the heat back down, vacuum the gravel lightly and perform a large water change (approx 50%). Make sure the temperature has dropped to the previous level before reintroducing the fish.

Chemical or medicinal treatments are available that will eradicate Hydra, but keep in mind that some can be harmful to live plants, snails, and even the fish themselves. They can also impact the beneficial bacteria, so they should usually be considered the last resort.

Among the chemical options are Copper Sulfate and Potassium Permanganate, which can be purchased at your local fish shop. Follow dosing instructions on the product. Many of the anti-fluke medications are also effective against Hydra, particularly those containing Formalin, such as ParaGuard.

• Physically remove the Hydra from glass, rocks and plants
• Add Gouramis, Paradisefish, or Mollies to the tank

• Add Pond Snails to the tank
• Remove fish and heat the tank to 104F (40C) for two hours
• Use chemicals such as Copper Sulfate and Potassium Permanganate
• Use anti-fluke medications

[Mintox]

Thanks Bigjohnnofish. 

 

Have treated the tank with Levamisole when I got my new Clown Loaches (preventative measure) some time ago. Still have some left so it can't hurt to dose again.

 

Will see the results of the second dose of Prazi and cleaning the glass.

[Mintox]

Hi guys,

 

Thought I would give a quick update for anyone that might go through something similar.

 

After the second dose of Prazi I noticed an improvement. The paranoia was still strong so after a few weeks I dosed the tank with Internal Parasite Clear. This was going well, however, my Clown Loaches had an adverse reaction after the second dose so I stopped it right there. Even after a quite few large water changes the Clowns were still not eating. I took out all my Texas holey rock and unfortunately missed one clown who was resting in the smallest of caves, killing it in the process. The clowns were removed to another tank. Over the remaining months, I have given my fish a break from all the meds and kept the water pristine. Everything is going well. Even the Clowns are back in and doing very well. The fish are all very happy and I will eventually be purchasing some more, housing them in a quarantine tank after all my ordeals. I have not seen the return of any Hydra and will be boiling my Texas holey rock before recreating the aquascape.

 

Thanks to everyone for their knowledge and suggestions.